What's she trying to say?
4 Stupid Things We Do When Meeting Girls (And how to fix them)
It's a miracle any of us get laid or find girlfriends.
Talk with a pick-up artist or sex expert long enough and—once they get past their spiel—they'll tell you the truth: most guys have more luck with online poker than they do with women. (So the next time you tell me about your full house and fooling around with two pair, I'll see right through your bullshit, buddy.)
And it's not just the over-confident frat boys and World of Warcraft types that aren't getting any play. It's all of us. Just ask relationship coach Jamie Thompson.
"Most guys are pussies. They live in a shell and don't know how to interact. They're not entertaining, engaging, or interesting."
Ouch.
I put my hurt feelings aside and asked Thompson and Dana Carney, PhD, to identify and solve four common mistakes we all make when trying to meet girls.
1. You don't look for "approach invitations."
According to Carney, people send non-verbal signals back and forth to show things like dominance, security, and sexual interest. We just don't pay any attention.
"People listen to words or notice overt gestures, but often don't understand how rich non-verbal information and subtle cues are," she says.
According to some scientists, non-verbal communication outdates language and is thus ingrained in our DNA. So a girl may be sending you all right signals, but because she doesn't explicitly say "You should come talk to me," many guys don't notice.
How can you tell if she's interested? Carney suggests looking for deviations in her baseline set of behaviors.
"Imagine a girl who's hunched over a glass of wine and maybe looking in a particular direction," she says. "And then you walk by and all of a sudden she sits up and starts to touch her hair or her wrists. Or maybe she's talking to friends when she notices you, and her rate of speech speeds up, or her voice becomes higher or lower, or she starts licking her lips. Those are all changes that shifted because of the new stimulus that entered her awareness."
Think about that for a minute.
Could be the girl hovering over you in the café wasn't really reading the newspaper; maybe she was establishing a closer physical proximity. And the girl at the bar who started talking loudly when you walked by may have been trying to get you to notice her.
The bottom line: Become aware of all the unspoken "conversations" and train yourself to notice when a girl is giving you the green light. If you get it, smile, approach, and start a conversation. Just don't be that guy. Read on.
2. You're way focused on being perfect and come off as a "try-hard."
Everyone's been in a group with the guy who talks to himself ("Now what did I do yesterday?") and nervously laughs after every joke. It's hard not to feel sorry for him when he's obviously trying be a part of the conversation. He's usually tolerated but eventually gets left out. Don’t be that guy.
Thompson believes guys who act like this aren't being congruent with their personality—they're too focused on the outcome instead of having fun.
"You can't fake confidence, a sense of humor, or having a good time," she says. "And those are all things girls find attractive."
So what if you lack confidence or have a sense of humor most people don't understand? Just go with it and be yourself.
"There's a lot of evidence that suggests we like people who are seen as fallible more than infallible," adds Carney. "Who wants to be with someone who has to be perfect all the time? If a guy has a lot of good qualities, but then fucks up and drops a drink or says something stupid in a social interaction, the question becomes How does he finesse that into a way that's cute or turn it into self-deprecating humor?"
The bottom line: Girls are used to getting approached and are extremely adept at noticing who's sincere and who's trying hard. You set yourself apart from the other guys in the bar when you approached her; don't screw it up by trying to be someone you're not.
3. You act like a petulant child or a castrated monk in conversation.
While some guys may try too hard, others are blatantly not trying at all. They walk into a group of girls and expect them to lead the conversation.
"Women constantly test guys to see how confident and socially comfortable they are," says Thompson. "But one thing we really like is a guy who knows what he wants."
According to her, most guys either back down too quickly, or, thinking that women respond to jerks, become over-the-top rude.
"If you're in a group of girls, make them laugh. Say something outrageous. Ask them about the most dangerous or taboo thing they've ever done. Show that you're an interesting guy who isn't intimidated by them," she says.
The bottom line: Girls aren't stupid—they know what guys are after. Hell, many of them are after the same thing (but more on that in a minute). Not taking control, sitting there like a puppet, or trying to establish dominance by being a jerk is a pretty good way to ensure you'll be leaving alone.
4. You don't understand that some girls just want to have fun. (As in, no strings attached sex.)
That sentence alone is enough reason to jump up and down and howl at the moon. As it turns out, girls want casual sex just as much as guys do. Probably more.
"There have definitely been times when I've gone out with my friends with the main goal to have fun and hook up," says Thompson. "We know guys want the same thing but a lot of them are too afraid to go with it and bring it up in conversation, so we end up waiting around. Everybody loses."
So why doesn't the girl you're talking to just come out and say "I'd like to introduce you to my bed?"
Because she's a lady, stupid.
"There's always been a stigma attached," says Carney. "Girls who have casual sex without a relationship are considered slutty and boys who have casual sex are seen as studly."
But thanks to cultural icons like Madonna and TV shows like Sex in the City, the stereotypes are starting to slightly shift, says Carney.
"You see women like Angelina Jolie who are empowered sexually but also strong and mothering at the same time. She looks like a woman who has no boundaries and others are starting to respect that."
So, women want sex. But you can't just walk into a bar and say, "Let's fuck." (Unless you want a mai-tai thrown in your face.) You've got to know when women are looking for casual sex.
Thompson's got a few ideas. "If they've just broken up with their boyfriend or when they're on vacation is the best time," she says. "Girls know what they want so you can drop the whole 'but she's just on a rebound' thing. We know we're on the rebound. That's why we want to have sex with you."
The bottom line: Girls have just as much of a sexual appetite as you, and could be willing to come back to your place if you follow one simple rule: don't treat hear like a slut. "It's really important that you implicitly let her know that you respect her," says Thompson.
So don't bad-mouth your ex-girlfriend or talk about how skanky the girl in a mini-skirt sitting across the bar looks. She's taking mental notes to see if you respect women.
A few resources to check out:
Sex and dating advice: BeASexpert.com
Dating Science and seduction: Magic Bullets eBook
(A slightly different version of this article was posted in March of last year.)
++++
What do you think of Carney's and Thompson's tips? Do they jive with what you've done? Anything you disagree with? Let me know in the comments!
Posted Feb 23, 2010 by Nate Green.
This entry is filed under relationships, dating, and sex.
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Comments for This Entry
Interesting post Nate. I think the main point I've gathered from this and from many other articles that deal with this topic is that women are constantly judging us from the get go. It's like they're screening us for strengths, weaknesses, positives, negatives, etc. After a lot of practice, women become good at sensing a man's bullshit (or whether or not their genuine). Like you said, "Girls are used to getting approached and are extremely adept at noticing who's sincere and who's trying hard." Seems like you're better off being yourself even if you are a World of Warcraft veteren or a self proclaimed meathead.
...and then you get married.
Sigh.
I agree with all of them, the 2nd one especially.
When you're actively looking you'll find the desperate girls, or you'll come across as a try-hard. But when you're not looking, focusing on your career, having fun, in the moment, that's when good things happen..
or so I've found in my experiences, and a lot of buddies in theirs as well.
Thanks for the article Nate, great stuff!
Okay as a woman if I look at a guy more than 3 or 4 times it means come over here and talk to me :)
Good list. As a former "Try-hard," I especially agree with #2. The more you stress over how they will perceive you, the more you will fall on your face.
Nate, I like the expert interview.
Thompson and Dana Carney know their stuff.
I think just being aware of those 4 points will do wonders in a bar, at work, at a book store, or even in bed. I have friends that still don't know if the chicks down to hook up and he's got her in bed half naked and giggling like crazy.
Seriously, the only thing you should be concerned about then is does the door lock and where are my trojans.
But anyway, just to add a bit, over the last few years I've had some breakthroughs and picked a lot up from going out 4 nights a week.
Oh yea and for the guys looking at that, no I drank maybe 1 of those nights, I have my best social interactions sober.
Anyway, here's what I got, from walking in to walking out,
1. Walk in to a party or bar very relaxed and smiling, theres no reason to rush to the bar, you look like an idiot.
2. Smile. Stop trying to be ackward. Ya thats how I view any1 who thinks just grilling a guy or a gal with a serious face (agressive, uninviting) is ever going to give the sign "lets talk".
3. Always think of the interaction as "on". Sometimes were always worried about wether the other person likes us. Well an easy way to stop thinking is that its always on. She digs you, your a cool confident guy. Why the hell wouldn't she?
4. Stop worrying about your looks, Honestly get your grooming down and stay up with trends but anyone whose a 5 or over can get any 10. I remember freshman year i was hitting on some girl who was pretty dam hot and some kid who looked like "Stephen Fuckin Glansberg" pulled her away from me by just acting like he could.
5. Don't act needy. You don't need this person at the end of the night, you just need to have a good time. Live in the moment.
Lastly, don't act as the girls the prize and respect all women. As corny as that sounds, I don't care if shes fat, ugly, tall, skinny, fit, smart, dumb. She's a women. Their all wired the same but have just had different experiences mostly because of their looks.
Its better to talk to a girl than no girl at all.
Nate sorry for the rant, hope you other guys throw some stuff out here, this is a great post.
Peace,
Chris
Great blog! Some guys would probably benefit from a step-by-step instructional video when it comes to the opposite sex LOL. I'm a personal trainer in Toronto, and I tell all my clients that everything begins with 'you'...if you work on that, everything falls into place nicely.
Cheers,
Sebastien Rahman
Personal Trainer Toronto
Good stuff Nate. Who's that dude by your opt in form? That's not Nate..! You're way better looking... post a pic of you...ha
Only thing I disagreed with was Thompson statement in point #4: ... "Tell a girl that you respect her before sleeping with her right away...?" It's amazing the things guys say to get a girl in bed!
If your sister dropped her panties for some dude on the first date... would you respect her?
Maybe I'm old school but I know I would not respect a girl who sleeps with me right away.... but then again, if I did, I obviously don't respect myself for sleeping with a girl on the first date. I guess that the real problem is me then!
Love your site Nate... keep it up.
Women constantly feel as though they are openly and obviously giving guys the green light to say hello but it rarely happens. I refer to it as oblivious male syndrome. You can be standing naked in front of a guy and he'll still wonder, does she want to have sex with me? (See Chris's comments above.) The best "line" a guy can use when approaching a female? "Hi, my name is ______." Just be yourself. We WANT you to talk to us!
Wow even my Hero Vince found the way here hahahaha
but i have to say great post Nate.
Its funny to see all the jackasses in my area trying to be MR. perfect... if you go to them and ask them "Do you belive in yourself if you walk up to a girl and ask her for her digits?" they gona tell you NO i love it.
But like Vince ;) i have to say #4 is kinda hard... i mean i'm 18 and i would not say i'm one from the old school but if a girl sleeps with me after 1 date (ok thats perfect for me lol) but i never would try to have a relationship...
well nothing more to say... just that they are right. girls compare men with each other and they see if someone is real or just full of BS.
From good old germany Björn :)
"So, women want sex. But you can't just walk into a bar and say, 'Let's fuck.'"
That line is what happends in the movies--LOL. Anyways, good post/interview. This topic is always interesting to read about.
nate do you honestly believe that none of us are getting laid? sure your right dudes with no swagger who stay home all day never get any because they are never around girls but on the other end of the spectrum take some fat ugly loser, get him wasted at a college bar every night and he'll pull some girls. Dont take this the wrong way because I respect your discipline and maturity when it comes to training but how are you and expert on girls? you have a gf bro, i know some lame ass frat dudes who fuck a few new girls every week just sayin.
Hey Nate, great post. But if the girl you're interested in is your best friend and you don't know if she's interested, what then? That's bad, isn't it... You just don't know if you'll end up wrecking your life. But then again, I don't have the balls to try, I admit!
Hey Clementi,
I’m seriously bored at work so I'll just throw something out there for ya that might help ( excel crawls)
Are you giving this girl any signs at all you’re interested in her? Not like a playful high five or a friendly hug, I'm talking real signs that show you’re interested...
If your not then there's no way in hell shell give you any signs of interest even if she IS,,,
See unfortunately, from my experience, women rarely put themselves out there...this is the guys job. Women aren't going to give themselves up for any chance of rejection, they only show interest if they DEFINITELY know the guys interested. It's a surefire way to never get rejected.
If you show interest, are confident, and aren’t giving mixed "friend signals" you will know ASAP where you stand. You won't lose a friend either, sexual tension has never hurt any1.
Sorry mate, its our job to deal with the interest part and we have to put ourselves out there to get anywhere, but seriously your already finding the right stuff to read and Nates got a ton of great advice, your gonna be all set man!
Chris
Hey Nate,
Was referred over to your site by a couple people and I gotta admit you got a great thing going on here. I was reading through your site the other day, and I am not sure if it was your site here or another one of your fellow bloggers sites I stumbled upon, but in the comments section you were talking about what your workout consisted of, and someone mentioned how they do this extreme body weight workout. Do you happen to remember and/or have the link for this? I would love to try out the workout.
Thanks!
Jonnie
P.S. Coincidentally I wrote up a similar article to this one the other day - check it out.
http://whatsking.com/how-to-be-the-man/how-to-become-an-alpha-male/
"Imagine a girl who's hunched over a glass of wine and maybe looking in a particular direction," she says. "And then you walk by and all of a sudden she sits up and starts to touch her hair or her wrists. Or maybe she's talking to friends when she notices you, and her rate of speech speeds up, or her voice becomes higher or lower, or she starts licking her lips. Those are all changes that shifted because of the new stimulus that entered her awareness."
I'm sorry but that is such BS.
It is never ever that obvious!
That is the perfect description of what happens in movies... not real life.
Unless you're god-like status in hotness.
But thats just my opinion... and whether it means anything to anyone, well I don't know.
@Chris: thanks for the advice! I admit, if I wanna take things further I should be stepping up my game more. I'll never know, will I? Thanks!
@Michael: yeah, I
do agree with you that in the real world you'd be hard-pressed to find hard and fast rules about all girls. It's kind of stereotyping them! But if you do see those signs, you'd know that they're definitely interested, won't you? So it's more of a spelling out of what to look out for to confirm interest, not what you'd surely see in every interested girl!
Soooo this girl I am trying to get with I work with at one of my jobs!! I know she likes to workout so I asked her to come to my trainig studio for a workout one day. She does and I let her know straight out that I had no intentions of her signig up and being my client, she asked what my intentions were, and I replied well I wantedto get to know you... Well she signed up anyway, thoughts from anyone out there would be great on where I go from here... I am even more attracted to her now that I have gotten to know her more I just dunno what to do next????
I was single and really dating around for the first time ever this past summer. What an experience. :) I think you have to figure out your "game", or what works for you. I've always been shy with girls, so I just started play it up in a comedic way. That somehow apparently comes across as me actually having charisma and being charming. To my surprise, this approach worked really well. For the first time ever I actually had to dwindle down a group of 4 girls (all of them attractive) until only my now-girlfriend was the only one left. I never got to be a "heartbreaker" before that.
Another important thing is to NOT get stuck in the dreaded friend zone. Make your intentions clear one way or another. Not to sound like a total dick, but I have enough friends. The last thing I want is a hot female friend who I'll have an unreciprocated (made that word up probably) desires for.
If you're looking for something lasting, the old cliche of "be yourself" is largely true. Sure, you want to be charming, but no point in trying to make someone fall for a phony version of yourself. It just isn't sustainable or enjoyable.
I'm no expert but I've learned that once you become comfortable with who you are life with the ladies becomes a lot easier. The more comfortable you are around girls the more comfortable they'll be around you. I agree with Rian that being yourself is the best way to go, its not always easy for guys to be themselves around attractive girls. Most guys don't realize how much they change when a gorgeous girl walks by.
These are all interesting points and (not that this should be a surprise) hold truth to some degree. I'll just throw out two disagreements, though:
1. The implied female near-clairvoyance. Here's the thing. Women are just as clueless when it comes to guys as guys are when it comes to girls. This is why that guy you know to be a dick can be perceived by a woman as someone she understands better than anyone else. Yeah right.
2. Asking women for advice on what women want. Just not a good idea. If you listen to what women want you'll typically hear wish-fulfillment (i.e., completely unrealistic) or nonsense (e.g., "just a nice guy"). Thankfully the female expert here has a Ph.D. (in what? I'll have one too soon but it sure as hell won't help me with relationship advice) which presumably lends credibility to her statements.
On a side note, I'd also be careful with 4. Women "probably wanting more sex then men" is... probably not true. Certainly doesn't make sense from an evolutionary standpoint, and studies speak against it (e.g., see Roy Baumeister's work). Of course there are women who are interested in just sex, but women wanting sex more than men - well, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. :)
keep up the good work and catchy posts
This is a great blog. I have bookmarked it and hope for more. I enjoyed it!
This is what makes the web so great. We can find so much info on things we like.
Good read. Definitely learned few things about What Women Want.
Interesting post indeed.
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